Episodes

7 days ago
7 days ago
Our best scientific models make it clear that society needs a big change at a global scale in order to limit irreversible damage—what good can individual actions and attitudes do in the face of this immense problem? Today’s guest, Debra Rienstra, argues that the right relationship with the Earth can actually make all the difference and that new worlds of hope are built in hidden refuges amidst the surrounding devastation. Genuine lament and grief help reorient us toward the beauty and majesty of creation. Only once this groundwork has been laid can we truly repent for what we have done—and begin the work of hope for a better future.
Additional Resources:
Learn more about Debra's book, Refugia Faith
Sign up for the Refugia newsletter
Find new episodes of Refugia Podcast
Theme song and credits music by Breakmaster Cylinder. Other music in this episode by Pink Marble courtesy of Shutterstock, Inc.
This episode originally aired on Mar 10, 2022.

Thursday Sep 18, 2025
196. Cool Creatures | Ticks
Thursday Sep 18, 2025
Thursday Sep 18, 2025
Ticks are among the most detested creatures in all of nature—but what happens when we look closer? In this Cool Creatures episode, Colin follows Calvin University professor Will Miller and some of his students into the field as they study ticks and the diseases they carry. As we explore ticks we find ourselves asking questions about public health, parasitism, and theology. Are ticks only dangerous pests or can they also open our eyes to the complexity and beauty of creation?
Helpful Resources:
CDC Tick Bite Guidance
Mayo Clinic Guide to Ticks and Diseases
Theme song and credits music by Breakmaster Cylinder. Other music in this episode by Evan MacDonald, Pavel Yudin, Nathan King, Cosmo Lawson, Vesper Tapes, Ricky Bombino & Elizabells, courtesy of Shutterstock, Inc.

Thursday Sep 04, 2025
195. Rob Dunn & Aminah Bradford | The Spirituality of Paying Attention
Thursday Sep 04, 2025
Thursday Sep 04, 2025
What happens when a theologian and an evolutionary biologist walk into a lab together—one asking questions about God through the strange world of microbes, the other studying the tiny ecosystems in our armpits and sourdough starters? In this episode, we hear the answer through the story of Aminah Al-Attas Bradford, a theologian who found herself researching yeast in the ecology lab of Rob Dunn, a biologist known for uncovering the microbial life all around us. Their collaboration leads to surprising questions about dust, microbes, matter, and meaning, and shows what can happen when science and theology meet in the middle in curious, unshielded conversation.
Theme song and credits music by Breakmaster Cylinder. Other music in this episode by Babel, courtesy of Shutterstock, Inc.
Check out Rob's book The Call of the Honeyguide: What Science Tells us About How To Live Well with the Rest of Life

Thursday Aug 28, 2025
194. Sy Garte | Life’s Deeper Logic
Thursday Aug 28, 2025
Thursday Aug 28, 2025
Far from the old picture of life as a mindless, mechanical process, new research is showing that even the simplest organisms—like bacteria—exhibit signs of purpose, agency, and decision-making. Biologist and author Sy Garte returns to Language of God to talk about how this might be a pointer to God. Following from his new book, Beyond Evolution: How New Discoveries in the Science of Life Point to God, Sy invites us into a fascinating and accessible look at how recent developments in biology are shifting our understanding of evolution. Without overstating or oversimplifying, he explores how the science of life opens space for wonder, meaning, and even theological reflection.
Theme song and credits music by Breakmaster Cylinder. Other music in this episode by Diverse Music courtesy of Shutterstock, Inc.

Thursday Aug 14, 2025
193. Science is Good | Wisdom, Stewardship, & Mercy in Three Stories
Thursday Aug 14, 2025
Thursday Aug 14, 2025
Born out of a cultural moment of growing distrust in science, BioLogos’ Science is Good initiative explores how Christians can be a voice for the goodness of science. The episode connects the three parables of Matthew 25—about wisdom, stewardship, and mercy—with the work of three scientists whose careers exemplify these virtues.
Epidemiologist Emily Smith shares how data-driven health work among the global poor reveals a form of wisdom that prepares for the needs of the most vulnerable. Se Kim, a science policy expert, reflects on the gift of scientific aptitude and the importance of investing in people and communities often left out of the scientific enterprise. And Francis Collins tells the story of hepatitis C, a curable disease still claiming lives, and how mercy means doing whatever it takes to bring healing to the “least of these.” Throughout, pastor Jason Miller offers insight into how Jesus’ parables can still form our character—even in our attitudes toward science.
Together, their stories serve as a faithful answer to the call: Science is good—and we are invited to live in the light of that truth.
Theme song and credits m usic by Breakmaster Cylinder. Other music in this episode by Robert Meunier courtesy of Shutterstock, Inc.

Thursday Jul 31, 2025
192. Dorothy Boorse | The Eyes of Flies are like Jewels
Thursday Jul 31, 2025
Thursday Jul 31, 2025
Dorothy Boorse describes herself as a child who used to be caught up looking at ants and other small and overlooked things. Later microscopes enhanced the possibilities of her attention. She followed science as it revealed its beauty to her but science also became a tool to help solve problems, to promote health and to improve the lives of people. She hasn’t worked out the answers to all the questions but she offers the wisdom gained over a career studying ecology within a community of Christian faith.
Theme song and credits music by Breakmaster Cylinder. Other music in this episode by Northern Points courtesy of Shutterstock, Inc.

Thursday Jul 17, 2025
191. A Tale of Two Conflicts | Scopes, Teilhard, and 100 Years of Hindsight
Thursday Jul 17, 2025
Thursday Jul 17, 2025
In July of 1925, two significant dramas unfolded on different continents—the Scopes “Monkey” Trial in Tennessee and the censure of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin in France— shaping the enduring conversation between science and faith. On the surface, these 1925 events couldn't be more different – one a public courtroom showdown, the other a hushed ecclesiastical reprimand. Yet, they both tackled the same fundamental question: What happens when new scientific ideas confront traditional beliefs, particularly concerning evolution? Jim Stump—with the help of guests Janet Kellogg Ray and John Haught—reflects on these pivotal moments from a century ago, exploring their lasting impact on the science and faith dialogue, the dangers of false dichotomies, the importance of epistemic humility, and the tension between institutional caution and prophetic imagination.

Thursday Jul 03, 2025
190. Jay Butler | The Ministry of Public Health
Thursday Jul 03, 2025
Thursday Jul 03, 2025
Dr. Jay Butler is an infectious disease physician, epidemiologist, and former Deputy Director for Infectious Diseases at the CDC. We had the joy of hosting Dr Butler in the BioLogos offices recently where we shared his perspective on public health as a ministry, discussing his career journey from the CDC to working with Alaska Native communities. He also delves into the history of measles, its impact, and the groundbreaking development of the MMR vaccine, which has saved millions of lives globally. The conversation explores the challenges of public trust in medical research and institutions, especially concerning vaccines, and how science and faith can come together to pursue truth and improve public health outcomes.
Theme song and credits music by Breakmaster Cylinder. Other music in this episode by Dark Blue Studio courtesy of Shutterstock, Inc.
Additional Resources:
BioLogos Open Letter to People of Faith about Science
BioLogos Common Question - Should Christians Get Vaccinated?

Thursday Jun 19, 2025
189. Ancient Humans | Becoming Spiritual (Neolithic)
Thursday Jun 19, 2025
Thursday Jun 19, 2025
From the earliest bipedal ancestors to the dawn of spiritual awareness, we delve into the archaeological, anthropological, and theological questions surrounding our shared past. Join us over two episodes as we uncover the blurred lines between ancient hominins and modern humans, and ponder the moments that shaped our anatomy, behavior, and spirit.
Building on our journey through the Paleolithic, this second episode explores the profound spiritual developments that occurred as Homo sapiens became the sole surviving species in our genus. We seek to understand the emergence of uniquely human spiritual tendencies and our ongoing relationship with the Divine with some stops at ancient sites in Orkney, Scotland and the American Southwest, to examine the rise of symbolic thought, the earliest cave paintings, and the beginnings of agriculture in the Neolithic period. These sacred landscapes offer tangible glimpses into the spiritual lives of our ancient ancestors.
Theme song and credits music by Breakmaster Cylinder. Other music in this episode by Berry Deep, Babel, Vesper Tapes, Immersive Music, Oakvale of Albion & Harpo Marks, courtesy of Shutterstock, Inc.

Thursday Jun 12, 2025
188. Ancient Humans | Becoming Ourselves (Paleolithic)
Thursday Jun 12, 2025
Thursday Jun 12, 2025
From the earliest bipedal ancestors to the dawn of spiritual awareness, we delve into the archaeological, anthropological, and theological questions surrounding our shared past. Join us over two episodes as we uncover the blurred lines between ancient hominins and modern humans, and ponder the moments that shaped our anatomy, behavior, and spirit.
n this first episode, we trace the incredible evolution of our ancient ancestors through the Paleolithic era. We explore how archaeologists piece together the puzzles of the deep past, discovering the fascinating story of hominins learning to walk upright, growing bigger brains, mastering tools and fire, and developing complex social behaviors. A significant part of this journey involves understanding the complex story of Neanderthals—who they were, what they did, and their eventual intermingling with Homo sapiens. We examine the archaeological evidence that reveals how our physical and behavioral traits developed, setting the stage for the emergence of modern humans.
Theme song and credits music by Breakmaster Cylinder. Other music in this episode by Northern Points, Babel, Nick Petrov, Jonathan Boyle, Big Score Audio and High Street Music, courtesy of Shutterstock, Inc.